NASCAR Cup Series

Denny Hamlin 1-on-1: On chasing an elusive Cup title, working with Michael Jordan

Updated Sep. 28, 2023 9:21 a.m. ET

Denny Hamlin has been making a name for himself this year by continuing to win races and taunt the crowd a little. Or a lot.

The veteran now has more wins (51) than any other driver not to win the championship.

Hamlin, who drives for Joe Gibbs Racing but also owns 23XI Racing with Michael Jordan, talked with FOX Sports last week after the win at Bristol and prior to the race at Texas. Among other topics, he discussed the Bristol victory, having a feud with a friend (Kyle Larson), whether not winning a championship this year would hurt more considering he appears to have race-winning speed most weeks and also about playing pickleball on the full-length indoor basketball court at his home.

What was bigger for you: Winning at Bristol or having both Michael Jordan and famous musician J Balvin on pit boxes for teams that you own?

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I'm a selfish guy. So I'm going to say that winning for myself was bigger. But it couldn't have been a much better night for me, that's for sure, all around to have both cars moving on [in the playoffs], Michael and J there together, me winning the race. That's a trifecta.

Are you more surprised that you have MJ on a box of yours or J being on top of a box of yours?

Probably J, I would say. Michael, I know he's a super fan, so I know he's going to show up in support for sure. I went back and I was watching the race and I see him reaching over and talking to [Bubba Wallace crew chief] Bootie [Barker] and I'm like, "Oh, man. Oh, my gosh, I know Bootie's got to be so worried about messing this up with Michael right behind them." But he's an owner who's very engaged. And that is what we need.

Going to Talladega this weekend. Do you have a love or a dread of Talladega?

I would say a love more than a dread. I don't dread any superspeedways for sure. The only time that you do is when you're points racing. And I guess we probably will be points racing at that point. I loved the older style superspeedway racing over the Next Gen superspeedway racing for sure [with the car change in 2022]. It is very, very different. I feel like my skill set on superspeedways, I'm not able to kind of show it anymore because I can't make those moves — [now] I will get hung out. Before I could hit a hole or something like that and it pays off. Where this Next Gen, you have to just stay in line, really, because they have so much drag. I don't love it as much as I used to. But I still love the chess match of it. It's still a big factor.

Is this Denny Hamlin's year to win the NASCAR Cup Series title?

You mentioned the Next Gen, which has common parts and pieces except the engine for everyone, has changed how you work and prepare because you can't just build a better car than the next guy. Why have you embraced that when it has tended to frustrate others?

I enjoy trying to find an edge where no one else is looking. That challenges me. I was really worried when it went from Gen-6 to Next Gen because, well, I can't beat the crap out of everyone with a faster car now, right? Like we all have the same Lego set. I know Kevin Harvick went five laps down [at Bristol] had the same spindle, same everything mine had — it was all the same, it was just how we put it together. And so I lost that edge. And then when they started sharing SMT [telemetry data as far as braking and accelerating and steering], I lost that edge — all my short-track tricks got exposed to everyone. So I then start looking in other areas where I can be better. Where are people not looking at?

I just enjoy year after year coming up with something that gives me an edge over the competition. And the more things become common with our cars and strategy and driving — the driver still, his execution, his craft is still the biggest X-factor in your performance. There's no question about it. The driver is the biggest factor every weekend. So it's on me to make sure that I'm better than the rest. And I put in the work that makes me better than the rest. And I feel like as many things have changed and I'm still able to be successful year after year for so many different variables, it certainly fuels my passion to continue to do this.

You mentioned it feels a little bit different this year, things are going well. So if you don't win the title this year, will it hurt more?

I don't know. I would say probably. This is certainly a really great opportunity. There's been other great opportunities, but I feel like there's always been four to five guys that have been super strong. Sometimes they get your number — one gets your number on this week, the other one gets your number that week, and you're always just kind of next best. But I just feel like when we're at our peak, we're as good if not better than everyone.

The 5 car [of Kyle Larson] has also shown that. The 19 [of Martin Truex Jr.] can do it at any moment — when he dominates, it's game over. But there's not like five or six of them. There's a really small group and so you just have to make sure you execute. And to answer your question, would it hurt more? Yeah, probably. But, again, I'm still winning races. And that's what I want to keep doing is making Final Fours, winning races — that just is going to be the big end goal for me. If we win a championship this year, I'm just going to try to win another one next year. Like it's not a finality. There's no, "Well, I accomplished at all." There's just more to it than that one race at the end of the season.

You mentioned Larson. You had, I don't know if I'd call it a feud or not with him earlier in the year. But is it different to have a battle or a little feud with somebody you know like Larson versus somebody like maybe Chase Elliott, who you don't know as well?

I think it is. It always is difficult to navigate on-track stuff with people that you have off-the-track relationships with because your team doesn't care about that. Your team doesn't care that you guys went to dinner last night. They care, like, we just spent overtime hours getting this car ready, we're giving it our all, we've trained two-a-days on pit stops, we've gotten better — are you going to give everything you can to win this race for us or not? And if you don't, then it's really, really hard to keep them behind you.

So I think I'm a good teammate. I'm not a great teammate. I've never been a great teammate because I'm too selfish. I want to win for myself and my team too much. And sometimes that puts strains on relationships I have with friends off the track. And so hopefully everyone understands that I'm just trying to do everything I can any weekend to win for my team because it means more to me to keep them behind me than anyone else.

Denny Hamlin's move on Kyle Larson at Pocono fair or foul?

If I told you that five years ago you would transform your basketball court at home into a temporary pickleball court, what would you think?

First of all, I wouldn't know what pickleball was five years ago. I'd say, "What is that game you're talking about? And don't old people play it?" And so it just tells you that I am getting old and my joints and my legs don't work quite as good as they used to. But it's probably the most-used space in my house honestly. With kids, they are rollerblading, they play volleyball, basketball, things like that. So as obnoxious and over-the-top that it is, it's probably the most useful space in my house. I enjoy it. For me, it kind of started last winter when it was cold — I can't golf anymore [in the cold] — so the golf buddies were like, "Well, let's play pickleball instead." So that's when I kind of got hooked on it.

What has the podcast you started this year done for you? And is there anything about that you've gotten out of it that you didn't expect?

The juice has been worth the squeeze on that for sure. There's several factors in deciding to do it. One was I was already talking about the sport on a weekly basis anyway in the media center. And certainly it allowed me to expand upon that and talk about things in-depth a little bit more because I have some more time. I get paid for it, which is a good thing. It doesn't take a whole lot of my time as well. I probably spend a couple hours preparing for it each week and an hour shooting it. So three hours out of my week isn't too bad considering the content we're able to create from it. And I think it is good. People get to know me a little bit more on a personal level. I try to give insight for those new fans out there. I try to give inside insights for those avid fans that want to know more in-depth stuff. It's part of giving back to the sport that I'm trying to do.

And finally, the champion this year, I believe, will go to New York on the Tuesday after Phoenix. If you win the championship, are you going to be able to make it to New York? Or will the celebration be too great?

I'm not really sure. I'm pretty sure NASCAR won't be very lenient on that schedule. But I probably would go after it pretty big Sunday night right after the race. God knows what hour that is. And then take Monday off to recover, go hit the media Tuesday and then find something to blow out that weekend.

Denny Hamlin on Michael Jordan's involvement with 23XI Racing

What To Watch For

The drivers in the playoffs, especially those close to the cutoff line, could really use stage points. But how much will they be willing to risk? Things can get quite sketchy as drivers jockey for spots at the end of the stage at a superspeedway drafting track such as Talladega.

Denny Hamlin, on his podcast this week, indicated he might try to stay near the drivers close to the cutoff — that way if he crashes, they most likely will be involved as well (the crashes at Talladega tend to collect several cars) and he will possibly keep much of his cushion.

Of course, the end of the race likely will be chaos. Where do you want to be? The leader when they take the white hasn't won recent races at Talladega, but there also is the risk of a wreck on the final lap — meaning no chance to make a move.

Several drivers in the playoff have had recent success at Talladega. The three Next Gen races have been won by Ross Chastain, Chase Elliott (whose car is in the owner playoffs) and Kyle Busch.

Ryan Blaney has finished second in the past two Talladega events.

Thinking Out Loud

Two truck organizations that have had significant impacts in recent years won't field trucks in 2024. GMS Racing is ceasing operations while Kyle Busch Motorsports has been sold to Spire Motorsports.

While the GMS drivers are looking for new rides — Daniel Dye already has landed at McAnally-Hilgemann Racing — the two KBM full-time drivers likely will be absorbed by Spire.

Nick Sanchez (driving a KBM truck fielded by Rev Racing) and Chase Purdy both had multiyear deals and it is expected that Spire would honor those agreements. It is certainly likely that Sanchez, who has sponsorship from Gainbridge, which also now sponsors Spire's Cup teams, will be part of the program.

Not having a championship Cup driver as an owner in the series and feeling the need to sell doesn't send warm-and-fuzzy feelings about the state of the series. But the fact that the buyer is a Cup organization that already had been looking to field one truck next year is a sign that many of those who currently work at KBM could remain there.

It is not rare for owners to enter and leave the series. The fact that both organizations were in the series for 10 years is a sign that they found some value and some success.

The key in the trucks continues to be how to increase sponsorship. Many of KBM's sponsors throughout the years came from Toyota, which leverages its vendors and suppliers to support its driver development programs, which led to many of those companies' logos on KBM trucks.

And just because Busch sold his team, it doesn't mean he won't ever own a truck again. It just means that at this time, trying to find sponsors and drivers and spending time focused on a competitive truck program is not his priority.

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They Said It

"You have to be prepared, whether it's to protect your points or try to fight from below the cutline. You're going to have both if you continue to go in the playoffs. It's not always going to go great. You have to be ready to manage some down times and make up for it." —Ryan Blaney on playoff racing

Bob Pockrass covers NASCAR for FOX Sports. He has spent decades covering motorsports, including the past 30 Daytona 500s, with stints at ESPN, Sporting News, NASCAR Scene magazine and The (Daytona Beach) News-Journal. Follow him on Twitter @bobpockrass, and sign up for the FOX Sports NASCAR Newsletter with Bob Pockrass.